Saturday, 25 August 2007

The problems of dualism

Dualism works on the principle that there are two distinct forms of reality; the mental and the physical. The most well known form of it is interactionism. Descartes in The Meditations argued that mind and body (or what we can interpret as mental and physical) had to be distinct realms of reality due to their difference in properties. Descartes held that the physical was spatial, temporal, extended, divisible and the mental was not. Thus they must be distinct. Descartes argued that the pineal gland was where the mental and physical came together. Of course nobody thinks that anymore but there are similar ideas of where it all comes together in the brain. Interactionists argue that mind and body interact with each other through some form of causal mechanism. What this is is very unclear and as I will argue later no such explanation will ever fully answer the question. I was contemplating the issue of the mental and physical having separate properties, and realised that this was only the case if one postulated a mental substance or soul; or in more recent times a homunculi; a centre of mind where ‘it all comes together’ so to speak.

I argue that if we quite reasonably take the mental to mean conscious phenomenal experience (and invariably move away from the notion of the homunculi) this is simply not the case. Our experiences are represented in space, time and thus are extended. Similarly we frequently divide our experience into parts. For example we distinguish between different objects. Although ‘the stream of consciousness’ can come as one grand unified experience it rarely does. Kant in the Critique of Pure Reason held that space and time were the necessary a priori conditions of any possible experience. I have to say I side with him strongly and Descartes dualist argument fails as anything more than a superficial bit of pseudo-logic.

Another form of dualism is epiphemonanlism. This version is certainly very counter-intuitive and it certainly doesn’t satisfy me, although it does some. It basically states that the mental realm is a non-functional by-product of the physical interactions. To me this seems to imply that conscious phenomenal experience like feeling pain ‘just happens’. It doesn’t help the conscious entity survive. IT isn’t a selection pressure. The account seems very misleading I think and certainly not satisfying. While it can’t be ruled out surely we should look for a more complete account with fewer holes.

Psychophysical parallelism is a final version which states that the mental and the physical are 2 distinct causally closed systems, i.e. they both ontologically distinct but there is no interaction between the two what so ever. This is even more counter-intuitive and I’m not going to dignify it with much of a response. While again we can’t rule it out it’s truly unsatisfying.

The main problem with dualism is that it always leaves what philosophers call an epistemic gap unexplained. How is the jump made from the physical world to the mental (and vice versa in the case of interactionism? Supporters come along and say things like “Well it happens at the synaptic bridges,” or “well quantum mechanics is responsible.” The fact is any justification that makes reference to any physical system theory is missing the point. There will always be a metaphysical gap that is un-explainable. It’s not a question of whether future research in physical sciences may find out the answer. By definition the gap is non-physical, or at the very least where its going is. Of course once again this lack of explanation doesn’t rule out dualism in itself but we want to find as complete an account as possible!

So what are the alternatives? The obvious one is physicalism; that everything is physical; the mental just doesn’t exist. All of it, the redness of red, the bitterness of a lime, the pain of a cut; its all just particles interacting with each other. In a sense I support such an account but I think the word physicalism is misleading and it definitely isn’t going to be accepted as a theory by the majority of this world. People’s experiences are too unique and rich for them to accept such a cold truth.

Another position is what Chalmers calls type-F monism of which there are various interpretations (one of them is my view which is described below.) An interesting yet puzzling interpretation is that there are proto-phenomenal properties underlying physical reality.

My position is what can be coined non reductive monism. There is only one substance whatever that might be. At times it is best to refer to it as physical and others mental or at least refer to conscious phenomenal experience. It is appropriate at times to make reference to folk mental talk such as beliefs and desires and also to qualitative descriptive words such as red when we refer to experience. At other times we may need to work on a lower level of analysis at the physical level; describing the physical interactions of neurons etc. We are trapped by language in the mind-body debate. We have to realise that ontologically speaking the mental and the physical are the same thing. However in science we have to work on multiple levels of analysis. No level is more right than another, simply more appropriate given the current task. Taking a strong physicalist (at least to me) seems to overlook that. I even have to say that physicalists turn themselves into philosophical zombies by my definition of the mental (phenomenal consciousness). Many argue otherwise, but once again I think it’s a problem of how we define things in the debate, i.e. a problem of language. In one sense my view is ontologically speaking monist; there is only one substance. In another sense my view is a form of property dualism; one underlying substance with various characterizable properties; mental (phenomenal experience), functional, computational, physical.

Another important emphasis I want to finally add is that when studying consciousness, to coin Andy Clark’s term ‘mindware’, we don’t just want to be looking at the causal interactions in the brain. Humans are embodied in an environment, and thus the study should leave the boundaries of the skin and take into account the interactions between body and environment to build the most complete picture. So when people say “What? Yeah but my experience is something different to just neurons firing”; our response can be something like “of course, neuron firing is only part of the picture…” People have a tendency to focus on the brain in their physical accounts, which misses a large part of the picture. I will come back to this idea of extended mind/cognition in a later blog. Until then I hope to have convinced the reader that there is a better alternative to straightforward dualism.

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

I obviously reject just about anything Descartes had to say, but Kant's idea that "space and time were the necessary a priori conditions of any possible experience" is puzzling, and I doubt it actually follows from any reasonable premises. At minimum it would be posteriori, and in this case we could still not make such a strong conclusion, since our senses only probe space and time themselves. Obviously it is going to seem as if these two things are necessities. Lack of imagination does not imply necessity, however.

As for your 'explanatory gap' argument, let me bring up a philosophy who, in my opinion, wasn't wrong about so many things. David Hume - remember his reasoning in the Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding where he pointed out that there is an explanatory gap for most Matters of Fact. Specifically, those Matters of Fact which rely on cause and effect. Why does a ball make the next ball move upon contact? Such a question can never be answered fully without simply generalizing from experience. No explanation comes from a priori reasoning. The best we can do is postulate concepts such as momentum etc. as ways to explain the generalized versions of our experience (moving things cause stationary things to move when in they come in contact.

So, I would say there is an explanatory gap which pervades most useful explanations about our universe. When an informational processing system fulfills certain empirical constraints (if we ever figure out precisely what these contraints our) phenomenal experience results. Cause and Effect. Of course there is an explanatory gap - but there always is.

So, dualism will postulate a new kind of 'stuff' to explain consciousness. It would need to be nonmaterial and this causes the Casper paradox.

But, monism will postulate that phenomenal experience and the physical brain are somehow "one", and this seems to be forcing a desired truth down one's throat, as it seems an incoherent statement to make. It would be like saying the information on my computer screen and the computer chips which ultimately cause it are 'one'. That kind of shit would be great in terms of explanation, but to me such claims make little sense.

So I dont have an opinion about how the mind does it, but I firmly believe right now that any perceived explanatory gap only results from out lack of habituation with the idea, whereas we have become habituated to the explanatory gaps which pervade our lives.

Jack J said...

yes I certainly agree with you and Hume about the explantory gap of cause and effect. I can understand how the claim that mental and physical are one is hard to make sense of. However it makes sense to me and of course to many physicalists so i guess will just have to put that down to a difference of understanding.

Furthermore, yes there are explantory gaps left in monist accounts but less so than dualist I would argue. We can by definition never find the physical constraints that jump the epistemic gap in dualism because it is a metaphysical gap. Whereas if we just accept that ontologically speaking physical and mental and one, that particular explantory gap is solved. Once again I can see its hard to get your head round, But I and many others have no problems with it. (although I did a while back).

Your computer chip - information on screen analogy is not a sound anology. It would be a better anaology for brain mechanics to output behavior. After all the information on the screen is effectively the outputed behaviour of the computer. In an earlier blog I do in fact address the anology of machine hardware-software to brain-mindware. But again I don't think its a good analogy. Computers are what we call "virtual machines"; their hardware can be used to realize any number of different softwares, e.g. java. Human brains arn't like that. The way the brain's neural networks interact/devlop is directly shown in our change in phenomenal consciousness through time. Hardware/mindware are one. Computer hardware isn't tied to its software! Like I said its a virtual machine.

Jack J said...

On the Kant issue; I do in fact agree with you. I can think of numerous experiences I have had where space wasn't part of my experience (and possibly time although Im a little unsure of that). The point I was really making was that Descartes said that the mental is non spacial. Well under my interpretation of mental as phenomenal experience, this is utter rubbish. That was really all my point was making.

Obviously however our brains must be set up in such a way as to be able to interpret space and time so we can experience the physical world, and in that sense Kant has a point.

Ron said...

Just wanted to make a general comment: impressive blog. Well done. -- Ron Chrisley

TH said...

Great blog!

The comment is mostly to the earlier comment. Descartes must be seen in context - which for him meant he had to account for what the catholic church thought about the soul. Even if we reject dualism now, I for one appreciate that his formulation did manage to stake new ground for "enlightened" research from theology who so far had a monopoly for soul. And that we still read his works centuries later even though disagreeing with many of his conclusions speaks volumes for the quality of his writings.

Unknown said...

Good to see people devoting such time to deep thinking.
Too bad about the negativity.

Jack J said...

Anjael, how so?

Archana Raghuram said...

Your blog is amazing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
About your point on everything everything being physical; the mental just doesn’t exist. I read an interesting thought experiment in VS Ramachandran's book.

Let us say I encounter an alien who does not recognize color and he wants to understand what ‘red’ is. Every time I see red he measures the wavelength of light. He does this with all colors and makes a chart of all the wavelength of colors that I experience. The alien can show me the chart of wavelengths and say this is what is going on in my brain. But I see red color, where is the red in the chart. I can never convey the personal experience of color (which is so different from the wavelengths) to the alien because he is color blind.

I have written about it in my blog (http://archanaraghuram.wordpress.com/2007/06/17/consciousness-and-the-brain%e2%80%a6/)

Jack J said...

I didn't actually claim that everything is physical and the mental dosn't exist. That is a misleading way of putting it I argued and a problem of the way things are defined in language. I claim everything is one, that the mental and physical are one. They are properties of one substance (which physicalists call physical but I prefer not to.) Hopefully my way can solve the thought experiment you refer to.

Ramachandran's thought experiment is a variation of Mary The Colour Blind Scientist, a scientist who knows "all" the physical facts about the world but has been living in a colourless room. One day she steps into the colour world. Does she learn anything knew from the experience? Is there somthing extra leanrt from the exprience?

Now I would argue that yes she does. She has a phenomenal experience of colour, but that dosn't mean that the colour is some special extra mental stuff. The entire process of lightwaves and neural interactions, etc, is all "physical" to coin the term (or one reality).

Whenever Mary thinks about a physical fact, different physical interactions occur in her brain, thus her phenomenal experience is different to that when she experiences light of coloured wavelength. So no amount of facts is a substitute for actually going through the process and experience of light entering the eye, travelling up the optical nerve and being processed in the neural networks of visual cortex.

If the alien is actually colour blind, thats because he dosn't have the correct brain area to process colour. Thus the actualization of colour experience "physically" (again to the coin the term) dosn't happen. Colour isn't just wavelengths, it is the entire process mentioned. Physical facts displayed on a chart are not colour either, they are exactly that, physical facts displayed on a chart.

I hope that answers your question. I think these thought experiemnts miss the point.

Unknown said...

Is the idea of color more to do with a linguistic convention like that which appropriately describes such an experience (qualia). the physical and mental are such confusing terms that iz hard to point out what takes over when.

I once read a nice argument about such gross scientific reductionism:
because there is a gravitational force around you, does that mean that explaining the human physiology helps understand black holes?

Unknown said...

Just to add to my previous comment...

In 1969, anthropologist Brent Berlin and linguist Paul Kay controversially proposed that all cultures recognise two basic colour categories -- black and white -- and that the more highly evolved a culture is, the more colours are represented in its language, up to a maximum of 11.

There is no objective reality of colour. It's an impression, a sensation which forms in the brain based on information sent to it by the visual apparatus. To label that sensation, to transmit it to others, we revert to familiar symbols.

Colour words, perhaps more than any others, reflect a society: its values, its practices, its history. In Benin in west Africa, for example, men and women have different colour vocabularies.

Jack J said...

No I don't think thats what I meant. There really such thing as colour as we experience it. Its just that that colour isnt an additional reality (some extra mental stuff or qualia) than all the physical reactions, between the lightwaves, the eye, the brain, etc. Although when talking about colour we may make reference to linguistic terminology like red, green, etc, so that we can understand things on a phehnomenal level. So there are physical and mental descriptions of that one reality and thats where the confusion with language comes in. Ontologically speaking there is still one reality!

that anthropological point on different colour names in culture is interesting. Obviously if their brains are set up the same way I would have to say that they all experience the same colours its just the make the divides on the colour wheel in language at different points.

And yes I wouldn't call light of certain wavelength colour untill it has been perceived by the visual system.

Anonymous said...

So jack i feel like you missed my point about epistemic gaps.

1.) all causal (i.e., physical explanations) explanations about things introduce an epistemic gap.

2.) you claim that the epistemic gap introduced by dualism ruins the theory or makes it so it ought not to be believed.

3.) From 1 and 2, it seems that you must therefore reject all of physics, chemistry, and most of biology, which are based upon causal principles, constantly introducing new epistemic gaps to explain old puzzles.

THIS is my problem with dualism: what does it mean to have nonspacial 'stuff'??

However, i have the exact same problem with your type of monism: "How can my experience of red be physical???"

Dont pretend that you can answer either of these questions. I will, then, profess myself agnostic about the monism/dualism debate.

However, i do think that strong eliminativism is a theory that may be without such a downfall. Saying that i only THINK there is phenomenal redness is quite clever and does skirt the problem. However It is hard to see how this could be the case, with , say, pain. How could i THINK there is conscious pain when there is not?

Anonymous said...

In regards to the last sentence of my previous post - what do you think about Metzinger's postulate that it is possible to be wrong about the contents of one's conscious mind.

Jack J said...

yes but surely the whole point is that we can explain these physical causes to a much greater extent. Theres always the Hume causal issue, no matter how far down you reduce you can always ask but what causes that. Im no expert in particle physics so Ill leave it at that (maby some physicists do think they can provide some circular account that solves it, but I don't know) We just have to accept the problem of causation.

But dualism creates an additional gap to this. You could say: Well this is just one gap we can't solve just like the causal gap in physics. However surely its better to have one less gap and opt for monism??? Dualism treads into some dangerous world of metaphysical spiritual stuff which if I understand you correctly you don't like. So epistemic gaps will always exist, but less is better.

On the issue of how can my experience of red be physical. Well once again I repeat that Im trying to avoid that because its bound to cause confusion. Im saying that it is all one reality! We can give it both physical and phenomenal (and functional) descriptions. It depends what level of analysis you want to work at. ontologically they are all descriptions of the same reality! Im just saying there isn't some extra special "stuff".

Obviously I can't give an objective answer, so yes on an objective level I hav to remain agnostic on the issue. However I am stating my opinion that I believe works as an ontology to build a decent Cognitive Science with fewer epistemic gaps than dualism. I'm afraid I can't really explain it better than that. If your still dissatisfied then we will have to leave it there.

Jack J said...

On the Metziner point. I don't think it makes sense to say that you can be wrong about the contents of your conscious mind. It is what it is. You might be wrong about your unconscious parts, but surely the conscious parts present themselves as they are. Maby I'm missing somthing on the issue though since I havn't read the part where Metzinger makes that point.

Dennett actually goes on the line of reductive physicalism and says somthing like the contents of your conscious mind is an illusion. You just think your experiencing red. That dosn't make much sense to me though.

Thoughts said...

You might be interested in Alex Green's "New Empiricism" which is an extension of William James' approach. See Time and conscious experience.

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